Tuesday, October 1, 2019

My thoughts on Evolution and Morality



Post P3 - My thoughts on Evolution and Morality


Hello! It is me, Max Koral. Here I am again! I know my previous posts (P1-My pet hates June 20th and P2- Observations on human nature June 17th, haven’t been received with much enthusiasm, but undeterred, here I go again!

Today I like to share my thoughts to aspects of Evolution and Morality.
The theory of Evolution is to me, a proven fact and not just a hypothesis. The evidence is overwhelming. These include fossil evidence, DNA and archaeological evidence. It is the only hypothesis that explains the diversity of Nature and its failures and successes, without the 


need to invoke a “designer”. One of the reasons some still have difficulty in accepting it is because they fail to appreciate the enormous time scale of life on Earth. We are talking of billions of years! There are also misconceptions such as that we arose from chimpanzees whereas the truth is that we both have a common ancestor only. The other reason is a deep belief that Humans are not really animals, how could they be! The final reason is derived from religious dogma.

The driving force for Evolution is the quest for survival. This ensures that genetic mutations which enhance the chance of survival are favoured and a species will progressively become better suited for continued survival. Offspring which are better equipped will gradually overtake those that are not. This is natural selection. It is not a “law” that is “obeyed” but pure common sense. All living beings are constantly exposed to threats. It does not require any sort of faith to accept that those who are better equipped will survive. In billions of years, that is precisely what happened. Better adapted species emerged, and the failures became extinct. We know that 99.9% of all species that ever existed on Earth are now extinct. The more recent ones to become extinct (last ten years) include the Tasmanian wolf, Pinta Tortoise, Baiji Dolphin, Caspian tiger and the Golden Toad. The closest known animal to Man (Homo sapiens) is the Neanderthal Man (Homo Neanderthalensis), and he became extinct around 40,000 to 42,000 years ago.

When it comes to more evolved species such as mammals and birds, other factors came in to influence Evolution. This can be called cultural Evolution. Reptiles and other less evolved species are solitary in Nature and care for themselves only. Mammals and birds have are more “social” because they have realised that to be successful as a species, cooperation, caring for other members and developing a “group mentality” has evolutionary advantages in propagating the species. Thus the notion of “survival of the fittest” was modified in the sense that to be fit for survival, the needs of other members of the species have to be taken into account. They don’t have a moral code as such, and it is purely pragmatic. It is reasonable to postulate that these tendencies became genetically codified and hence transmitted to offspring.

At this stage, if we take a giant mega leap in how Man developed, we can see that behaviour traits which are now called “good” arose, and the “bad” ones were not favoured. At a much higher evolved and cultural level, these behaviours became entangled with the concept of “morality” driven by Theistic religions as well as any philosophy that believes in an afterlife. There is no doubt that moral laws could help in the survival process. Discipline was found to be useful and different ways of obtaining it evolved. One of the most powerful is the emotion of fear. Fear figures prominently in many religions – fear of retribution, a painful afterlife wherever it is, and fear is also the basis of law enforcement. But human beings appear to be driven to behave morally, not just by these means. While it is true that many people behave well because of the fear factor, there is overwhelming evidence that humans who are atheists and humans, who are not driven by fear of breaking the law and its consequence, still adopt moral attitudes and behaviour and this appears to be something that has evolved over thousands if not millions of years. This kind of moral behaviour is seen in birds and mammals. For example, rats share food with other favoured rats (their “mate”), wolves defend each other against grizzly bears, a prairie vole taken out from a cage in which he shared with another vole and is subjected to banging noises which stresses him and then is put back on the cage is greeted by his mate who grooms and licks him to calm him down, elephants are known to help injured or ill members of the herd, Chimpanzees show a sense of justice and those who deviate from the code of conduct set by the group is set upon by other members as punishment, vampire bats who successfully foraged for blood will share with those who were not successful.

For humans, and most probably for other higher species as well, I believe that two other factors (related) operate. The first is the desire to experience pleasure and the second is the desire to avoid discomfort. Indirectly, both these will enhance chances of survival. For example, the desire to avoid discomfort will lead to a safer life and thus a longer life through attention to matters of safety. The desire for pleasure will also, in general, promote a safer life, although it could admittedly have the opposite effect at times. Pleasure often involves socially “survival” promoting behaviour such as helping others, sharing with others and caring for others. Like everything that occurs in Nature, deleterious effects can also occur with the pursuit of pleasure. There are no ordained laws which govern human beings, and just as some mutations produce less well-equipped species, the pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of discomfort can act in more than one way but it is my contention that the nett result of this is towards a better-equipped species for survival.


Bye for now.


30 comments:

  1. I am glad that Speedy is undeterred. It's not that the previous posts of Max Corner have not been received with much enthusiasm. It's just that only a handful of viewers actually visit the blog and make comments. When I look at the audience, I see that many do visit the blog, but it may be that they are not computer savvy (enough to post any comments).

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  2. Mahen
    Thank you for that well thought out script
    I welcome the transformation of Max Koral from a comic to a naturalist and a philosopher. We need them now more than ever. It takes me back to 6th form Zoology when we were taught about Ernst Haeckel the German Zoologist and his theory that Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. He claimed that an individual organism's biological development, or ontogeny, parallels and summarises its species' evolutionary development, or phylogeny. Haeckel was a great supporter of Charles Darwin and the theory of evolution. Even to a rustic like myself from the wilds of Kegalle, Darwin’s theory makes sense. But to a believer this alone does not exclude the presence of a God. What if they feel God made that process possible?
    We too must be aware our capacity to learn is limited and our knowledge at present is microscopic compared to what is out there. With these limitations we must have the humility to accept there could be a supreme figure whose being and work we just do not understand. As scientists we feel comfortable to accept evidence based arguments and what we can see, hear, feel and prove. I could certainly go along with that. But let us cut out this vanity that we know best.

    I do agree with and accept Max Koral’s views in his fine discourse on morality. What’s wrong with sex, drugs and Rock’N Roll?

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  3. Thanks for your well thought out comments. The beauty of Science is that it does not claim to know "the truth". Science accepts that current knowledge is based in what evidence is available and Science is ever-willing to discard a hypothesis if fresh evidence indicates it is wrong. This is very different from Religious dogma. Furthermore, it is not necessary to prove that something in order to accept or reject it. I would say it is very unlikely that a large beefburger is orbiting the Moon although I cannot prove it! I readily admit that Man has immense limitations in attempting to fathom the goings-on in the U&universe but as far as I know, whatever advances we have made has been through the application of Science. I don't want to debate the value or otherwise of Religion but I acknowledge the comforting role it has played throughout Human History counterbalancing the harm also done and I have no way of deciding whether the net result is good or bad;that will always be a matter of opinion.

    But when it comes to evolution, there is a clear clash between Science and Religion. Accepting the scientific method to me is not vanity. But to resort to ridiculing others who have different views is a danger. The sensible thing on most occasions is to just say "This is what is acceptable to me; I am not saying that I know everything as I know that I don't!"

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  4. Just getting to know Max Koral -
    I read all three posts this morning !
    I had somehow missed P1 and P2 which were amusing in their own way !
    Your reference to them as lead balloons made them all the funnier !
    P3 of course- a more profound analysis of Darwinian and moral evolution in a nutshell is informative, interesting, and well done- Thank you Mahen.
    I am tempted to ask a question which you do not need to answer if you don’t wish to.
    Is the photo of the little mite in a “jungy suit” that accompanies the post one of you ?!
    Cheers

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  5. Sorry- May be more respectably called rompers !

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  6. Rohini. Well spotted! The little fella in the jungy rompers is indeed yours truly. What a transformation

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  7. Mahendra
    I like Max Korals new persona including his academic vanity. I know you don’t take my insipid comments seriously as we have known each other for so long. Well do entertain and amuse us with your academic arguments and egocentric comments. Please be assured I know I am infallible and always right!!

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    1. Reminds me of the wife who told her husband "Of course dear, I know that I am not always right.... but I am never wrong"!

      I love exchanging views and ideas and always welcome other points of view. None of us can claim to fully comprehend the complexity of this Universe but I always favour views that are based on reason and views that promote Peace, Harmony and Happiness in this World and by corollary,views that do not impinge on the right of every Human being to expect a fair deal from his/her Fellows.

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  8. Hi Speedy Appreciate your comments. What has intrigued me in the past and still does is the complexity of the "machinery or shall I say "factory" of the human body. It virtually brings every aspect of the sciences Chemistry physics Zoology astronomy into play with our daily living. A couple of years having dinner with a couple of Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and they all claimed that within 5 years technology would have developed a complete human being. I still remember my response when I said "yes you may ( I still doubt it) may be able to develop "the human factory" but you cannot develop the feelings and emotions we as human beings have as individuals". This is where my conflict of evolution and the supreme being conflicts. Thanks again Speedy for raising this very interesting thought which I am sure has been argued and discussed over the past many years and will be discussed for many more decades.

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  10. I think both Zita (in the earlier post)and Mahendra have come close to the topic of rebirth. As a Buddhist I am a believer of it. I wonder whether you all are aware of Professor Stephenson, an American Professor of Psychiatry , who did pioneering research regaring it in Sri Lanka during the 1970s, by studying in detail several instances of children relating details of their previous births, which contributes to the reality of rebirth.

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  11. Max Koral
    You've brought some life into our blog when it was going into a snooze. As always what you bring up is for discussion and debate and not in anyway a denigration of religion or firmly held beliefs.
    The Prof has brought an important issue. Evidence that is beyond reasonable doubt is the standard of evidence required to validate a criminal conviction. Perhaps that is adequate in most cases rather than to prove something scientifically when the human mind has its limitations. So our inability to prove something doesnt mean it is wrong.
    Rajan has dwelt on an important issue. When I see the beautiful way the human body is built from the complexities of the individual cells to the function of the various organs including the brilliance of the brain and mind I find it hard to believe there has not been a superior intelligence behind it all.
    I respect Dawkins writings but he too has the same limitations as we have.

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  12. Nihal, the beauty and complexity of Nature goes beyond Human beings. The magic of natural selection and adaptation is that it makes diversity possible. Even the descendants of creatures who remained in the water and did not become amphibians as some of their mutants did, became better adapted to a aqueous life and therefore survived. The survivors it must be noted are not the original water inhabitants but the mutants who developed more adaptability. This answers the question some pose, "why do we still have reptiles and birds and monkeys?" This is because of a lack of understanding of Evolution. As Max pointed our, we must learn to think in a different dimension in time. A million years is not long - several millions or billions is! The huge complexity did not happen at a pace we can fathom, it took a hell of a long time! If you look at a Porpoise or a Shark, or some deep sea animals who have adapted so well to live in great depths so much so that they would instantly die if brought to the surface, you can really appreciate diversity. Creation by a Super power is an easy cop out - at least for me! A super power with "human" qualities such as love, forgiveness and empathy is even harder to stand to reason in a World full of disease, hatred, injustices on a pure logical basis. I accept Science does not have all the answers but the beauty of Science is that Science is based on doubt whereas Religion is based on Faith. Faith is a perfectly understandable human trait but it hasn't got the capacity to understand Nature.

    The Designer concept appeals to many and could be comforting but Science can explain how many wonderful things happen in the Universe without the need to invoke a Designer. Even if a Designer is lurking somewhere, the Universe if far from perfect! I may sound harsh on Religion but all I am trying to do is to find answers to questions that baffle me and I haven't found any religion that does so to my satisfaction. Having said that I fully recognise the important role it plays in Human society and the solace it provides to Millions of people.

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  13. Max Koral
    I would go along with the concept that we have evolved over several million years. But there is also a distinct possibility that there is a superior being that has done it all. I am aware how little we know and understand when knowledge itself is limitless. In that context to disregard the possibility of a God seem careless.
    We are never going to get to the bottom of it. I've gone as far as I can and will stop at this. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to air my views .
    The trouble with these erudite discussions is that we end where we began. So conserve your energy and prevent climate change!!!

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  14. I quite agree with you that these discussions do not lead to any sort of conclusions but to me, that does not mean they are fruitless! When I discuss topics such as these, I get a sense of satisfaction and also a better understanding of the issues involved. My aim has NEVER been even a hint of attempting to show that I am correct and others are wrong. I am humble enough to admit that I definitely know that I don't know!Philosophy is a subject which always fascinated me and shall continue to do so and I will continue to advocate people to think rationally and pursue Science, but there I stop, I cannot make them drink,only show where the water is (I think!).

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  15. Side tracking is to be expected in a blog thread but I did notice that nobody has commented on my assertion:- "I believe that two other factors (related) operate. The first is the desire to experience pleasure and the second is the desire to avoid discomfort. Indirectly, both these will enhance chances of survival".

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  16. Wow who wouldn't like that but then speedy doesn't that encourage a selfish attitude and possibly even perversion?. your thoughts

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  17. Does the desire to experience pleasure really enhance the survival? What if my desire is to drive fast cars and motor bikes?

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  18. In response to Rajan and Nihal. It is not ideal to pick one example of something which gives pleasure and also narrow it down to the experience of one person to test the hypothesis! One could ask whether eating chewing gum at a certain time enhances survival.

    One must consider the generality. As I stated in my post, "For example, the desire to avoid discomfort will lead to a safer life and thus a longer life through attention to matters of safety. The desire for pleasure will also, in general, promote a safer life, although it could admittedly have the opposite effect at times. Pleasure often involves socially “survival” promoting behaviour such as helping others, sharing with others and caring for others. Like everything that occurs in Nature, deleterious effects can also occur with the pursuit of pleasure". My contention is that in general terms, the desire for pleasure will lead to behaviours which have survival value. This has to be interpreted in the wider context and as I pointed out, everything that we do has positive and negative effects. What must be contested by those who don't hold that view is whether survival is, on the whole, promote survival, also not forgetting the very long term view and discarding the tendency to think short temptation to think of life events in an individual.
    On Rajan's point. This is an often debated point. Does altruism, in the end, have a selfish basis? Is it possible to do "good things" without a thought for how "I" feel? Even if you look at a Theistic doctrine, am "I" influenced by the thought of "I" benefiting by listening and paying heed to a Super Intelligence? Some resort to passing judgement based on the motive of an action but even then, it is almost impossible for any human being to be totally unconscious about the entity "I" which is a representation of this living being in the Universe. Extending the argument to whether an action which is performed for the benefit of your fellow living beings but in the process you enhance your chances of survival, in my view, it does not detract from it.

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  19. ? A case for “ the selfish gene” with its own limitations ?

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    1. Yes Rohini. Richard Dawkins has some regrets about the choice of his word "Selfish gene". In the foreword to the book's 30th-anniversary edition, Dawkins said he "can readily see that [the book's title] might give an inadequate impression of its contents" and in retrospect thinks he should have taken Tom Maschler's advice and called the book The Immortal Gene. A distinction has to be made between a gene and the full organism.Instances can be given where the "selfishness" of the gene proves to be altruistic to the species"! It is very complicated,

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  20. I think of the difficulties people experience with the selfish gene theory is a misunderstanding of its proposed mechanism. Species themselves do not directly favour being "selfish". It is their genes which are randomly changing and passing on these changes to their progeny. The resulting "beings" with a better chance of survival will survive. Genes are "doing their best to survive by making their offspring better at survival.As Dawkins put it, “Genes are in a sense immortal. They pass through the generations, reshuffling themselves each time they pass from parent to offspring ... Natural selection will favour those genes which build themselves a body which is most likely to succeed in handing down safely to the next generation a large number of replicas of those genes ... our basic expectation on the basis of the orthodox, neo-Darwinian theory of evolution is that Genes will be 'selfish'.” Thus "selfishness" is not "conscious" in the sense that genes are not conscious. Mutant genes with a better capacity for survival (within a living body) are naturally selected. Conscious beings are not required to exhibit selfish behaviour to have a better chance of survival.

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  21. One more point before I shut up! Random mutations in genes is at the heart of the theory. This process was referred to as "selfish" by Dawkins is because the sole purpose was for the gene to continue as longas possible by passingt on to progeny -it could be called "selfish" in that respect although genes clearly are not conscious beings capable of such emotions. Natural selection then sets in and the most suitable survive. When genes survive within a living organism, depending on how advanced they are, the phenomenon of cultural evolution sets in. Group behaviour and interaction between individuals and the "herd" becomes increasingly significant. This is where psychological trait such as selfishness, altruism operate.

    As I said earlier, a gene mutation which is "selfish" can lead to detrimental survival value and vice versa. A bird or a bee risks its life and health to bring its offspring into the world not to help itself, and certainly not to help its species.

    In Groups or Tribes, altruism is in general favourable to survival. There is no value in picking up a short term example to "show this is not true". We are talking of groups of species operating over a long period producing certain tendencies. Genes are "selfish" in the sort of language we understand but it must not be literally thought of as such. As Dawkins conceded, he perhaps chose the wrong word in an attempt to make his case in language intelligible to his wide audience and has ever since been misquoted as promoting selfish behaviour. The Immortal gene would have been a better term although even that has limitations as nothing really is unchangeable and permanent.

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  22. Mahendra
    I am greatly impressed by your extensive knowledge of the concepts in philosophy and your ability to lay out some of its principles in such a lucid manner. I never knew of your devotion for the subject. This explains the calm and principled manner in which you lead your life.
    My sincere apologies for the flippant manner in which I have written my comments not realising the seriousness in which you have written your piece. Perhaps it is the Max Koral persona with its past connections to PGW which made me so cheeky. Max Koral has now been transformed completely from a man of wit and humour to a scholarly Philosopher. Perhaps Sanath is right about rebirth!!

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    1. As I see it - It is the birth of Mini Koral evolving into Max Koral ,now onto Gonzal Koral the serious philosopher. Ontogeny recapitulating phylogeny !
      Mahen Thank you for keeping our neurones firing .

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  23. I always enjoy what you say and what you write Nihal. True friendship is a strong bond.

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  24. After reading the comments which touch upon history, philosophy, evolution, Science vs truth and dogma and even 'jungy jumpers' and lead balloons, here's common or garden Zita to give her tuppence worth! And the comment was written before reading the comments above.

    Hi Max Koral!
    Indeed, I’m sorry your two previous presentations on related subjects went un commented on and think that was because of most readers following other subjects on the blog. But to me your thinking and tracing of human beings against the tapestry of general evolution of life on earth is most interesting and there is nothing we can criticise in what you say. But it makes us proud of being part of this lovely human state which show characteristics not found in any other being. E.g.
    1. Desire for improvement and aspiration for ‘higher’ achievement.
    2. Emotions at higher level than that found in any other species.
    3. Brain abilities exceed and surpass those of any other living thing and this is attributed to a highly evolved cerebral cortex, e.g. creativity as in art, music and sculpture, plus ability to create machines to do things efficiently and quickly. Man appreciates time as being precious. He may be the only or main living thing that has this characteristic.
    4. Language. I put this in a separate category as it is to do with the wish to communicate and interact with others including with animals.
    5. Capacity to love surpasses that possessed by any other living species. This includes willingness to die for others, go without things to help others and other virtues e.g. Like a wish to do good to others for its own sake and not for immediate gain or to solve a problem
    6. Ability to think, meditate, reign in emotions for greater good or for its own sake.
    7. Belief in things supernatural.

    Ok, chimps and us have a common ancestor but the connection ends there! We see that the difference is attributable to, and resides in man’s bigger brain power, thinking, believing and aspiring.
    Now digressing a bit: Is it any wonder then, that man has ‘faith, religious belief and that of an afterlife, as a direct result of advanced evolution? So, don’t we have to leave the thinking and higher believing man to do as he wishes? So, let us not take that away and what he thinks and believes is his right, his Prerogative.
    Zita


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  25. Zita my good friend, or as you would say in the language you admire, Zita, mon bon ami! You are very correct in pointing out the meteoric and exponential rise of Humans in the animal kingdom.

    This is a topic which has occupied the minds of scientists, philosophers and religious leaders with no clear answers to date. In many areas, it is a matter of degree. For example, animals do feel sorrow, elation, empathy, communicate with each other verbally and through gestures, do "reign in for the greater good" as you put it, do possess the capacity to love but where we excel is in the appreciation of music, art, our own history and the extraordinary desire for introspection and seek answers for questions such as "why are we here?", "how did the Universe start?" and "what is the real nature of what is around us?". I just cannot see even the most advanced chimpanzee pondering on morals and on his own origins, although he will be affectionate to his mate,love and protect his offspring and spring to the aid of a fellow chimpanzee in distress. Religions of course provide one possible answer which is acceptable for many and not so for many others. Science is grappling with it and hopefully, we will know more,although may not be in our life time.

    For me personally, the importance of being curious is that it is a humbling experience and also a precious experience in how we value life and how far we have evolved. It promotes the kind of behaviour which will be of benefit not just to us but for our progeny and our Planet. Ignorance is not a higher emotion, it is very much a base emotion. Let us always question and continue to learn.

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  26. Mon ami Mahendra, tu as raison! Truly I can't find anything to argue about what you say. I agree too that in the animal kingdom there are amazing creatures we can admire and who are we to look down on their own language of communication with each other when that's one we could not yet learn to any degree! They probably discuss us and even laugh at us! Then there are the points you have raised like 'why are we here?' 'how did the Universe start?' One has to respect the different ways man tries answer these questions using exalted scientific knowledge, belief in the supernatural and even magical! It's imparted as a result of what man is born into, how he is educated and even the company he keeps. We have to give each one the benefit of the doubt that he could be right. That's the beauty of tolerance. Science is the best way to explain things as it depends on facts, principles and provability. So we should be happy to note that there is not just one answer but that by virtue of mans reasoning power and also due to his exposure to culture and religion among other things, each one may have a way of explaining to oneself the conundrums of existence, faith and final destination etc. As long as we are tolerant and don't have a 'holier than thou' attitude man, woman and animal can live in perfect harmony in this beautiful world.Thanks for letting me have my say! Zita

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